Red Blades of Manderian

*It is a dark and heavily raining evening, quiet aside from the heavy raindrops, with a gentle breeze. A shadowy rider approaches at a full gallop, riding straight for the great hall. As the horse nears the doors, it snorts as the rider pulls the reins hard to the side. The horse stops and turns sideways, and as if all in one motion the rider flings himself off the saddle with the momentum of the horse. He lands on his feet, and stands for a moment, motionless. He unbuckles his scabbard and tucks it with blade still within under his pack on the horse, and walks to the doors of the hall. As he gains cover from the rain from the buildings overhang, he wipes the mud from his soft leather boots, and lowers his hood before opening the hall door quietly. He pauses for a moment once inside to ensure he has not surprised anyone with his presence, particularly the guards. Then he speaks.*

"M'lords and Ladies, I apologize for interrupting you all on such a 'fine' evening, but I come at the invitation of Unahim. I come on behalf of my guild, the Forsaken to discuss relations between our guilds, and open future communications."

*Thaeric stands within the closed doorway, drenched from long rides in the downpour, clearly exhausted, and awaits a response.*

(OOC)
Just returning the friendly gesture made by Unahim, and posting contact information for any of your members that might wish to get in touch with Forsaken.
I personally can be reached at ThaericForlorn@gmail.com,
while my guild page and forums can be found at http://forsaken.clangroups.com

I hope to hear from some of you soon, and that our guilds can both benefit from our friendly status.

Hey There Thaeric,

Its good for you to stop by. We hope that we'll be able to keep some good contact between us and we certainly hope to see you drop by our city once in a while for good measure. And we're certainly not against maybe something more, dependant on our goals and direction, we're trying to achieve.

Cheers,

(04-02-2010 05:45 PM)Amaryl Wrote: [ -> ]Hey There Thaeric,

Its good for you to stop by. We hope that we'll be able to keep some good contact between us and we certainly hope to see you drop by our city once in a while for good measure. And we're certainly not against maybe something more, dependant on our goals and direction, we're trying to achieve.

Cheers,

I hope that we find you in game; prosperous and a great city that will become a hub of role-play and immersion.

Just wanted to mention that our website has been overhauled! You are all welcome to stop by and check it out. While your there don't forget to visit our forums. We have a RP thread already set up and waiting!

Forsaken

Thank you, we will drop by soonish.

This is an exact copy of the document that Forsaken is getting ready to post in the political forums of MO. Any and all guilds that are willing are welcome to sign this agreement.

The purpose of the agreement is to establish Forsakens utter neutrality, and offer benefits to those that officially accept it. Those benefits are simply that we will treat you and yours with respect and invite you to partake in any event or trading that we host.

If this is something that your guild is interested in signing, please email me at ThaericForlorn@gmail.com
Also, if you are agreeing to sign it, send the name of who will sign (exact spelling), any applicable title or rank within your guild, and if you have one, a guild seal to be placed on the document.

I am trying to get as many guilds as possible to sign this before its original post.

Thank you for your time.

--------------
Disclosure and Agreement
of Political Neutrality
Including Non-Aggression, Fair Trade, Neutral Property and Diplomacy Policies
In regards to the guild, Forsaken,
and all parties contracted herein.

Forsaken agrees and offers to remain in a neutral political standing with any and all willing parties. Any party who wishes to accept this offering of neutrality and benefit from it must accept and officially recognize, by signing this agreement, Forsaken's status as a free guild, and that Forsaken is not to be requested, forced, coerced, or in any way pressured to surrender their freedom and neutrality by joining an alliance or political bloc, or to serve or be subjugated by any party. The terms, conditions, and details of this agreement are as follows.

All Contracted parties...

1.will make sincere efforts to ensure that they, as the governing body of the party or the members of said bodies, respect, understand, and follow all aspects of this agreement.
2.understand this agreement is immediately and continuously effective upon a parties signing until a contracted party declares to Forsaken that they are withdrawing from the agreement with a minimal notice of seven days.
3.understand that amendments or additions may be made by Forsaken only with the approval of all currently contracted parties, unless the option of immediately dissolving the agreement with Forsaken is offered to all parties that disagree with the amendments or additions.
4.understand that Forsaken's property is a neutral ground for all persons present and all are to leave hostility to any of Forsaken's guests or members outside of said property for the duration of their stay.
5.understand that Forsaken will show no favoritism based on political affiliations or backgrounds and will offer each contracted party equal prices for currently available services, materials, objects, and equipment; notwithstanding reasonable local market adjustments.
6.agree to make every possible effort to discuss and solve any problems that arise with a contracted party through diplomatic and peaceful ways before the stability of this agreement is effected and hostilities are considered as an option.
7.are expected to respect and abide by our laws while on Forsaken property. Forsaken laws can be viewed here, in section G: http://forsaken.clangroups.com/Guild.asp...ID=9064195

Forsaken....

1.agrees to abstain from willfully and/or knowingly committing hostile actions against contracted parties and their members under any circumstances except to enforce rules or laws on Forsaken's own property.
2.will treat all contracted parties as automatically welcomed to any public event hosted by Forsaken, whether on their own property or in a public area.
3.may request any individual to leave Forsaken's property if they believe with good reason that they are intentionally causing problems, and use force if; the person refuses to leave, and their guild or other governing body can not help resolve the issue in a timely fashion, or they become an immediate danger to Forsaken, their property, or guests.

Contracted parties not including Forsaken...

1.agree to abstain from willfully and/or knowingly committing hostile actions against Forsaken, it's members, their property or their guests while they are on Forsaken property. Hostile actions include, but are not limited to; Attacking other people, stealing, insulting or in any way performing an action that leads to damaging a person, property, or assets. This also includes any form of hindrance or retaliation, direct or indirect, due to Forsaken's business with others, regardless of political affiliations or standings.
2.have the right to request a private meeting with Forsaken's leader, or senior officer for immediate cases, to discuss any concerns or problems regarding the agreement.
3.have the right to request monthly meetings with Forsaken to reaffirm the continuing effect and validity of this agreement.
4.may dissolve their contracted agreement with Forsaken at any time for any reason by giving a seven day (168 hours) notice to Forsaken.


Violation of the terms and conditions of this agreement are subject to termination of the violators contractual agreement with the Forsaken along with the subsequent rights afforded by this agreement. This includes Forsaken, should they willfully and knowingly violate the agreement.

Thank you for the offer, but at this time, RBoM does not see the benefits for signing this. We have no problems with Forsaken, or any amenities against you, but at this point and with the current information available to us, it is not in our best interest to sign this.

Since I will not sign a Nap without having knowledge of your members, where they are based, and what Forsaken considers its property. secondly, I do not see the benefits of granting some-one immunity for dealing with my enemies. when we get them. aswell as the ridiculous notice of 7 days is not in our benefit.

That said, we have no problems again with Forsaken and consider neutral to us for the forseable future.

But that is not enough for us to sign a limiting contract.

Regards,
Amaryl
Lead Diplomat
Senior officer

(07-01-2010 06:32 PM)Amaryl Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for the offer, but at this time, RBoM does not see the benefits for signing this. We have no problems with Forsaken, or any amenities against you, but at this point and with the current information available to us, it is not in our best interest to sign this.

Since I will not sign a Nap without having knowledge of your members, where they are based, and what Forsaken considers its property. secondly, I do not see the benefits of granting some-one immunity for dealing with my enemies. when we get them. aswell as the ridiculous notice of 7 days is not in our benefit.

That said, we have no problems again with Forsaken and consider neutral to us for the forseable future.

But that is not enough for us to sign a limiting contract.

Regards,
Amaryl
Lead Diplomat
Senior officer

I see.

I am saddened to hear that as I had hoped RBoM would be one of the first to sign the agreement since it is made in an attempt to establish and secure our neutrality so that we could trade and host events, particularly RP events in our Taverns, without fear of hostile actions from guilds because we are involving their enemies. Something that you just pointed out that you are not willing to do.
Our efforts are being made so that people have a neutral place where they can set aside their differences and come together for events that all are welcome and protected at, as well as allow us to use our trade at our taverns, which we hope to be at every major player based site, to finance such events.

Our members are heavily and almost entirely based out of Vadda at this time, with a handful of refiners and gatherers at other locations. Our property is not "territory" like many guilds lay claim to, but rather something that is clearly our, specifically, our Taverns, houses, or other structures.

The seven day notice is simply to ensure that a guild does not use the agreement against us. We plan to have taverns in every major player city, and we would require time to evacuate those buildings of materials, items and people. It would hardly be fair for us to log in one day to find that a guild dropped from the agreement without warning and became hostile overnight. Also, keep in mind that 7 day notice is required if you are choosing to drop from the agreement. It is obviously not required if a violation of the agreement occurs, such as Forsaken does something that breaches the agreement. Please note the following quote from the document.

"Violation of the terms and conditions of this agreement are subject to termination of the violators contractual agreement with the Forsaken along with the subsequent rights afforded by this agreement. This includes Forsaken, should they willfully and knowingly violate the agreement. "



Again, this is your decision, and I will not pressure you into it. Though I admit that I am very saddened by the fact that RBoM, one of the premier RP hubs, will not be participating in something intended to be so peaceful, and used for bettering the community within the game.

Best of luck to RBoM. Be well.

I fully understand where you're coming from and RBoM is interested in aiding and helping in events hosted by you for you or otherwise. But for one. you don't have any property yet. so i'm not commiting this guild to something that doesn't exist yet so i can't see the rammifications of it yet.

secondly, a few points on this agreement could come in direct conflict with Manderian's interests if one of your taverns is build in Manderian. Mainly points 4,5 and 7 of all the contracted parties on such a general notification.

Bottom line is, I and RBoM are more then willing to help with the promotion of RP, trading and other events. but we will simply not sign a general treaty made for mass production without the adequate boundaries negotiated. without the details ironed out and without a clear understanding of what is and what is not accepted.

general legalese stuff makes me iffy.

If you want to form up a treaty for RBoM guaranteeing your neutrality for your community sponsored non-political events then yes I'd probably sign it.

additionally, when/if a forsaken tavern should be build in the up and coming Manderian city. Then the cities rules will be in effect and there won't be some neutral ground for our enemies to hide in our own very city. which is basically what this agreement is saying.

As far as the concern about enemies within your city, they would first have to travel through your city and territory to get to our tavern, and eventually leave. I am willing to wager that few would ever try, and they would instead just go to a tavern that is on friendly or neutral territory rather than risk being killed for attending a social event. Until the time that they step through our doorway, your laws within your own city would apply. Similarly, your own people would have the same ability in an enemy town if they chose to try to make it to one of our Tavern in hostile territory. Furthermore, no where does this agreement state that RBoM has to allow us to construct a building in your city, that is still your right to control, as such, the point of concern regarding our structure in your land, and your laws there, is mute.

If this is how you feel, then I am afraid that your city will not have one of Forsakens taverns in it, as we simply can not have different agreements drawn up specifically for individual guilds from a multitude of guilds. We are looking to provide equality at all of our sites, to everyone interested, as that is the only true way to establish and maintain neutrality. The problems lies in this: If we allow your guild to declare _____ then we must also allow every other guild the same thing otherwise we are no longer being neutral, and thus would offend other parties. Eventually this will lead to every guild making demands in the neutral agreements that essentially eliminate or are focused on a single parties interest that they are not at peace with. This would destroy any hopes of neutrality, and thus any hopes Forsaken has of being a true neutral party to all, where everyone is equally welcome.

The original plan was to do what you are speaking of in allowing guilds to draw up their own agreements for us, but after receiving several documents from other guilds and reviewing them our council quickly realized that we could not agree to each individual agreement without infringing on one or all of the other agreements. For example, one agreement sent to us stated, "Forsaken is not to supply arms or armor to any political body with which we are currently hostile towards". This clearly would cause a problem with whomever they were speaking of, as we would now no longer be able to fairly and equally trade with them. Not to mention it would be a political nightmare and require us to monitor who was at war with who, which we have no care to do. It is because of this that we have decided to establish a generalized agreement and declaration that covers everything that is needed to to ensure neutrality without involving us in the inner workings of other guilds cities, laws, politics or wars. As the intention here is not to tell other guilds how to handle their own affairs, but to establish that they will nto tell us how to handle ours AND respect our laws when within our property. The benefits of this agreement include being offered discounts on bulk purchases on materials, items, armor or weapons that we sell to the contracted parties, as each party is entitled to "equal" treatment, as well as an open invitation to visit our taverns or events without a specified invitation, and a neutral place where traders can come to sell or trade their goods and services even with their enemies if they so choose.

We have made every attempt to make this agreement as neutral and unbiased as possible, even contacting the duchy of wessex to review it and make suggestions for changes to ensure it was in their eyes, neutral.

If that is your final stance on the matter that is fine and we will respect your decision. I will stop wasting your time. Best of luck to RBoM. And remember, your members are still welcome in our taverns at any time, so long as they respect our laws.